Это может быть нравственно защитимым для выпуска программы, которая играет MMORPG? [закрытый]
Вы можете обернуть цикл for в функцию и выполнить ее обработку. Тогда вы также можете использовать time.sleep, не блокируя основной поток.
from tkinter import *
from threading import Thread
import time
root=Tk()
en = Entry(root)
en.pack(side=TOP)
en.focus_force()
la = Label(root, text='6666')
la.pack(side=BOTTOM)
def la_diappear():
la.pack_forget()
def la_appear():
la.pack()
def actions():
li = ['a', 'b','c','d']
for i in li:
la.config(text=i)
time.sleep(3)
la_diappear()
time.sleep(7)
la_appear()
t = Thread(target=actions)
t.start()
root.mainloop()
14 ответов
I've been building (but never selling) bots for online poker and chess for over a decade (insert promotional web link here) so this question caught my attention. I agree with @Simucal in that you need to tread lightly, especially where MMORPG's are concerned. Blizzard in particular has a draconian stance towards automation.
4.5 million copies of EULA-compliant spyware
Then again, the idea that a private company's TOS/EULA = LAW is a bit of herdthink. The moreso when that company markets to a worldwide audience across international borders. This introduces additional complexities into the TOS/EULA, which is already a vague piece of legalistic verbiage in the first place. The common practice is to structure the TOS/EULA to make it as aggressive, all-encompassing, and wide-reaching as possible. This is just good legal sense. It doesn't necessarily mean that every line of the TOS is legally binding. A TOS is a deterrent and the company will insert whatever language they think they can get away with, and hope it holds up when/if it's tested in court.
Nothing wrong with this.
At the same time, building a bot is, in and of itself, neither morally or ethically wrong. There's a very strong and convincing argument to be made that provided your bot doesn't actually "hack the servers", you have every right to run whatever piece of software you like on your machine in the privacy of your home. This is especially the case when the servers are inundated with bots anyway, so by not running a bot you put yourself at a disadvantage. Everquest PVP (for example) has been dominated by botting pretty much since the beginning.
Anywhere, there are two important criteria to consider:
- Does the bot depend on information which other player's don't have?
- Does the bot enable superhuman reactions, stamina, or coordination?
This puts wallhacks (unfair information) and aimbots (superhuman reaction) firmly in the "unfair/cheating" category. On the other hand, a simple farmbot is most probably NOT cheating, because the bot doesn't have access to any insider information and it doesn't allow you to do something you couldn't otherwise have done. You could, if you wanted to, sit there for 10 hours a day and farm ore or roots or whatever. It's not much fun, but you could easily do so.
This is a good acid test for whether your use of automation has crossed the line. Trying to cheat people is a bad idea. But writing a bot to essentially ward off carpal tunnel is understandable, and it can actually be a rewarding project.
But again, I wouldn't advise actually selling a bot. Because if you make any money on it, you open yourself up to the sort of retaliation @simucal mentioned.
You need to tread very lightly.
MMOGlider was a popular WoW bot up until recently. I wrote an addon for it in C# called GliderTools (GliderTools.net) which made a decent bit of money.
Blizzard recently sued MMOGlider for $6 million dollars and won. There is legal precedent now against the writing of bots and commercially selling them. The monetary damages associated with doing this are staggering. It worth noting that the crime Blizzard was able to get MMOGlider on wasn't "botting" but instead, copyright infringement. They claimed that because the bot client had to access and copy certain parts of the running games memory that this constituted copyright infringement.
Considering MDY (creators of MMOGlider) made less than $2 million dollars, they have a heavy price tag on their heads. Michael Donnelly the original creator and founder of MDY was not protected under his LLC license and he is personally liable for those $6 million dollars. This kind of debt does NOT go away with bankruptcy. He has it for life. Once you add on legal fees, appeal, etc this is a dangerous game.
I personally love writing bots. To me a game isn't fun unless I've dissembled it, wrote a patcher for it or automated it in some way. This what makes the game fun for me, not the game itself. Seeing your bot run autonmously for the first time is a real high. However, if you make a commercial product and sell it to others it becomes a different matter.
So, if you decide to make a bot I strongly suggest you either release it from outside the United States or keep it private among friends.
Earning money on annoying million of other players, on something that's close to be taken for illegal won't look good on your resume either.
Use your skills for good™, not evil.
Personally I see botting software for populare games, is like writing botnet worms. You waste other people's time and efforts (and often money).
Would you write a virus to earn money?
Just because other people will make similar bots does not make it morally OK.
These games are, at the end of the day, supposed to be fun. As you said, bots turn the game into an arms race, especially if the game has any competitive component.
Here's an example from my experience with World of Warcraft: I wanted a specific item crafted. The materials for this were hideously expensive on my server; the large number of rich players (who may or may not have gotten their gold legitimately) had pushed the prices up to a point where I couldn't afford it.
My only option was to farm the materials myself. Many of these required killing huge numbers of monsters for days at a time. One particular item had something like a sub 1% chance to drop. And almost every single farming spot was being run continuously by bots.
It's hard to compete against something that doesn't sleep or take breaks. You can't simply wait for them to go away because they don't. Because I played by the rules, my goal was made far harder than it should have been.
It's hard to have fun in the game if there are people willing to ruin your experience out of laziness and greed.
So no, I'd say it's not morally defensible. You know full well that what you create is going to harm people.
The real question is, do you have a problem with that?
Проблема в том, что большая часть игры сводится к одному: конечному контенту.
Возьмем, к примеру, World of Warcraft, я люблю играть в это, и я люблю прокачка персонажа Конечно, в этом процессе есть некоторые утомительные моменты, но в целом это весело.
Теперь, если я установил бота и просто включил его, чтобы выровнять свой характер, по крайней мере, выполняя всю повторяющуюся работу и оставляя я просто посещал тренера-NPC и время от времени получал новые навыки, и все, что у меня оставалось, - это то, что я мог делать на 80-м уровне.
Кроме того, все навыки я, как личность (не мой персонаж) следовало бы узнать, как по дороге вылетает окно.
В Counterstrike есть два типа людей, которые за гранью превосходства, например, это люди, которые используют ботов, и это ' люди, которые только что сыграли так много, что они настолько хороши.
Как только вы решите использовать ботов, вы в значительной степени обречены продолжать их использовать и пытаться автоматизировать воспроизведение конечного контента, так как вы на самом деле у вас нет опыта игры на этом уровне.
Таким образом, вы сводите всю игру к соревнованию по программированию.
Даже если вы оставляете свой код только для себя, все, что вы доказали. это то, что вы можете программировать. Вам еще предстоит доказать, что вы можете играть в игру.
Итак, в конце концов, какой смысл в том, что вы играете в эту игру тогда?
Как уже говорили другие, есть много вариантов, доступных для вас, если все вы хочу создать программное обеспечение для автоматизации вещей.
Сказав это, я разделяю вашу радость от управления моей средой. Я регулярно использую довольно много аддонов в World of Warcraft, но они не дают мне преимущества перед другими так же, как бот. Они могут упростить мне организацию инвентаря, позволить мне вести заметки внутри игры или просто оптимизировать пользовательский интерфейс, но, в конце концов, я все еще нажимаю кнопки в ответ на игровые события.
И это что такое игра для меня.
If you've described your true feelings here, then the fun was in solving the problem, not in creating a product. If others appreciate this kind of thing they'll do it themselves.
In my opinion, you cannot have a morally defensible position when in order to being solving the problem interesting to you, you agreed to terms and conditions prohibiting you releasing your work.
Я сам являюсь большим многопользовательским геймером и играл в очень много MMORPG.
Когда я вижу, что кто-то изменяет в онлайн-игре, у меня изо рта только одно предложение "Что за чушь * р!"
С моральной точки зрения неправильно портить удовольствие другим, и если вы пытаетесь на этом заработать, это ничуть не лучше, чем управлять компанией СПАМ .
Честно говоря, меня не волнуют боты-фермеры, игра в игру, которая требует постоянного ведения сельского хозяйства, звучит глупо для меня. Но все же есть много людей, которым небезразлично, и вы эти инструменты определенно портите им удовольствие.
Я понимаю, что это забавный вызов, держите его в секрете, развлекайтесь, рассказывайте друзьям и хвастайтесь, но не убивайте веселье других людей.
In my opinion a ToS holds no one back [...]
So, by using the MMO, you agree to the ToS; but it's OK to break the rules, because you don't agree with the ToS? Nice doublethink, but the court would probably ROFL at such argumentation.
You see, the basic idea of ToSes everywhere is "it's our way or the highway" - by using the service, you agree to play by the service's rules; if you don't like the rules, nobody is forcing you to use that service, you can freely walk away.
Also, don't try to be "clever" and release the bot in Elbonia just because its jurisdiction allows that: the ToS probably states that server's jurisdiction applies (which can bite you if you ever decide to visit the country in question, or even another country which has extradition agreements with it).
Disclaimer: IANAL
Если вы следили за делом Blizzard против MDY и последним результатом, я бы Настоятельно рекомендуем вам хранить код в секрете, если вы находитесь в США или любой другой стране, где действуют законы об интеллектуальной собственности.
Кроме того, его продажа № 3 только доставит вам неприятности. MDY обанкротился, ему больше не разрешали продавать свой продукт, ему пришлось передать исходный код и заплатить Blizzard 6 миллионов долларов США за ущерб.
Автор, Майкл Доннелли, скорее всего, окажется в отделе для остальной части его жизнь.
Я рекомендую вам держать это в тайне.
Progression requires unethical choices. My advice is Go Ahead and "reap the benefit of your proclivity, it's work for which you deserve recompensation [...]". Why are you ever worried about this? Release the hounds and let others fight it if they can. Take a history book to see thousands of similar decisions made. It pushes humankind forward.
Yes, it is fun to reverse engineer games and to do automation. From your question it sounds like you're asking where to go from there.
A) It violates the ToS, so you shouldn't use it yourself.
B) It violates the ToS, so you shouldn't sell it.
My impression is you're looking for an OK to do one of those two things, while admitting that the fun was in writing it. I would suggest you take the entertainment value from writing things for what is, and assume your "fun" time is not worth any money. Particularly at the expense of others.
ToS никого не сдерживает? Посоветуйтесь с Blizzard, они не довольны такими вещами. Их ToS определенно не запускает никаких программ, связанных с WoW). Компании, управляющие этими MMO, очень стараются остановить такие программы, потому что они приводят к несправедливым преимуществам и разрушают экономику.
As opposed to Blizzard and WoW, take a look at Ultima Online and OSI as to they allowed 3rd party tools, and even supported them (Tugsoft's UOAssist).
To me it's morally fine, if the game is designed in such a way that grinding one thing only leads to grinding another thing, and if the grinding in general is done in really unpleasant manner then, hey, why not? If it's allowed, everyone has an equal chance, as everyone can use the particular supported 3rd party product, this is a chicken-egg question.
It's mostly forbidden because it reduces the time you need to spend in the game, effectively reducing the time you're paying them for their service, so, greed or fun?
As a sidenote, I'm all against unattended macroing, it's a huge difference between attended and unattended.
Если вам нравится делать такие вещи, вы также можете посмотреть на не- MMO. Существует множество игр (например, TES: Oblivion и Fallout 3), в которых есть очень активные сообщества разработчиков модов, которые допускаются и даже поддерживаются разработчиками игр.